Return-Path: Received: from asio.cia dot com (asio.cia dot com [209.197.145.101]) by mail. (Weasel v1.20) for ; 16 June 2001 01:00:00 From: "Digest" To: "OS/2GenAu Digest" Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 01:00:00 +1000 (EDT) Reply-To: "OS2GenAu" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: CASMailer 1.0 for OS/2 Warp PPC 1.05/G4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: No. 90 Message-ID: <200106160100.000029G6atmail.> Date:- 16 June 2001 1================================================ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:42:01 +1000 From: "Voytek Eymont" Subject: Re: [os2genau] [eCS] Not really eCS related, but very In a message dated 2001-06-14 18:52:43 +0900 (EST) (Thu), "John Angelico" wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:03:17, Voytek Eymont wrote: > > >** Reply to note from "John Angelico" Fri, 01 Jun = 2001 13:09:10 +0900 (EST) > > > > > >> Steve Gibson is doing us a HUGE favour here. > He has signalled a fundamental security flaw in Win systems which, > so far, MS has declined to fix. > > Surely that is a bonus for any non-MS OS in Internet-land. I had a quick read of it. Not so sure. what was that saying, about dogs barking, but the caravan moving on ? > Yep. And ShieldsUp and PortProbe are just as good in the > Internet-world. I test every so often to make sure I am not a risk > to myself or others while online. but are they really a better tool than say a port scanner ? Voytek Eymont voytekatsbt dot net dot au www.sbt dot net dot au/links/ ********************************* 2============================================= From: "Ian Manners" Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:41:41 +1000 (EST) Subject: [os2genau] Belgian OS/2 User Group eCS Demo Forwarded from the eCS List. By Luc Van Bogaert I'd like to share a short report on my first personal eCS experience, during the eCS demo at the Belgian OS/2 User Group, done by Mensys. There might be some inaccuries in this report, because it's been over a very busy week since I attended this presentation and unfortunately I don't have a photographical memory. Joachim Benjamins and Roderick Klein from Mensys were invited to show eCS (release candidate) at the June 8 meeting of the OS/2 User Group Belgium. They brought two machines with them to do the presentation, a desktop machine and a laptop. We had those machines connected to a VGA-projector w/ screen and the other on a very nice, very large Philips flat plasma screen. I don't know the specs of those machines and wether they had SCSI on board. IIRC, they first showed the boot to Desktop from CD and explained that you are able to boot to a fully working eCS desktop this way, including internet support through USB modem. To demo the installation process, they started booting the desktop machine from CD and when the pre-boot configuration text screen came up, paused a little while to explain some of the options on this screen. Of course, the SCSI boot options were all there, as well as other options related to video, etc. Even though pure text mode, the screen layout looked quite professionally done IMO. Then they started the actual installation, and paused again to explain about another graphical dialog window with several installation options. Then they continued the installation to the point where the progression gauge is displayed. At some point a very cool animation is played and everything seems to be very well layed out, well polished and easy to use and understand. Let me tell you that the graphical part of the install looks great, all enhanced with new eStyler controls, etc. With the first installation phase in progress, Joachim talked about some of the work that had be done to come to the current status and explained what's in the pipeline for eCS. They also had some interesting things to share about multimedia support and how Mensys is working with several companies to improve this aspect in eCS. They also talked about what difficulties still have to be overcome in developing and improving eCS. Difficulties of technical, economical, legal and "political" nature. The first installation phase ended without any hickups in about 9 minutes or so. Then came time to reboot and that's where the only problem in the whole presentation occured : the machine failed to reboot after the first installation phase. They explained what they thought was going on, but I didn't catch many of that, and I got the impression that they didn't have a clue either. Anyway, what they did was start all over again, but this time using another CD containing the very latest eCS track, that they had received just the same day or the day before. On this one, the boot logo (which looks very nice) was modified once again so they told us. Everything went smooth from that point on, and the first installation phase completed even faster than the first attempt. No problems during reboot this time, and on to the second installation phase. At this stage, it clearly shows that there's still a lot of work to do to reach the same polish and ease-of-use as the first installation phase. Here, some of the well-known IBM installers show up. However, I also noticed how the WarpGuides are used to install a printer : very nice, very well done. Networking install seems the same as it always was, except that some dialog windows with help text pop up to guide the user through the install, or at least provide some meaningfull information about what is going. I'm not sure, but I think they then did a second reboot to completely finish the installation. Afterwards, some of the eCS features were discussed, including DToC which was briefly demonstrated in a connection to a machine of one of the attendees, and ofcourse WiseMachine was also demonstrated and discussed. To summarize, Mensys did a succesful presentation of eCS in Belgium, and to me eCS looks ready for the masses. The installer works and is *much *faster then ever before, eCS has some very nice interface enhancements, and of course the feature set and the included software collection can hardly be matched by other operating systems today. However, it still needs improvement in some areas, of which networking installation is the most important IMO. Multimedia support should be improved as well, and it is very reassuring that Mensys amongst others is currently working hard on this. Personally, I'd like to have more GUI updates in the version following v1.0 :-) Some of the icons look really sharp, but I'd like to have *all the icons on the system look that way. I also don't care too much for the bitmap backgrounds in folders, but that of course is purely personal taste and easy to solve. END FORWARD MESSAGE. Cheers Ian B Manners 3============================================= From: "John Angelico" Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:26:07 +0900 (EST) Subject: Re: [os2genau] [eCS] Not really eCS related, but very On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:42:01 +1000, Voytek Eymont wrote: Hi Voytek. >In a message dated 2001-06-14 18:52:43 +0900 (EST) (Thu), >"John Angelico" wrote: > >> On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:03:17, Voytek Eymont wrote: >> >> >** Reply to note from "John Angelico" Fri, 01 Jun 2001 13:09:10 +0900 (EST) >> > >> > >> >> Steve Gibson is doing us a HUGE favour here. > >> He has signalled a fundamental security flaw in Win systems which, >> so far, MS has declined to fix. >> >> Surely that is a bonus for any non-MS OS in Internet-land. > >I had a quick read of it. Not so sure. >what was that saying, about dogs barking, but the caravan moving on ? We both know that in MS terms the dogs bark, but the caravan hardly ever moves on, because of what Steve describes - the inertia of most apathetic Win operators (home SOHO and corporate) who DO NOT apply all the security fixes, along with the terrible problems of the fixes themselves - MS design philosophy: patch on a patch. Check Woody Leonhard's Woody's Office Watch newsletters for an informed intelligent supporter of MS products who is scathingly critical ofthe MS coding approach. > > >> Yep. And ShieldsUp and PortProbe are just as good in the >> Internet-world. I test every so often to make sure I am not a risk >> to myself or others while online. > >but are they really a better tool than say a port scanner ? Read what he says - they are software port scanners for people like me who don't run a lot of gear, don't run servers and need some assurance about our Internet interface. I happen to have enough conscience and moral fibre to preach a gospel of TWO-WAY internet security - especially to Win users who don't know. Best regards John Angelico OS/2 SIG talldadatmelbpc dot org dot au or talldadatkepl dot com dot au -------------------------------------------- PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico .... eCS: too powerful to be Windows, too easy to be Unix. 4============================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:26:21 From: Voytek Eymont Subject: Re: [os2genau] [eCS] Not really eCS related, but very interesting... ** Reply to note from "John Angelico" Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:52:43 +0900 (EST) > >> Steve Gibson is doing us a HUGE favour here. > > I really hate to be cynical.... but Steve has software to sell to windows users, I guess, that's his 1st and only priority; he also seems to point out flaws in TCP/IP design, rather than anything else; (from what I've read of his pages) whereas you and I know that, OS/2 'as is' overcomes a number of these problems, that, alternative solutions existed on OS/2, that alternative apps existed of OS/2 since year dot, etc, etc, etc; Steve has never pointed that out, and, I'd be willing to be he never will (I r h t b c, but) I really hate to be cynical.... but Steve has software to sell to windows users, that's his 1st and only priority; (oh, yes: did you see the part where he says that result of his PostScan/Probe might be unreliable as the Win server he uses has fundemantal bugs that cause unreliable output ? but, he will fix it, of course. I r h t b c, but) to sum it up: I really hate to be cynical.... but that's my final contribution to this futile thread. Voytek Eymont SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/ phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 5============================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:26:35 From: Voytek Eymont Subject: [os2genau] W4 CP1 install Trap d on 3rd floppy just tried to install W4 CP1 on C-MMX300A 128MB AHA2940; this system runs normally W4 FP14 TCP/IP4.1 on D: booting from floppy, after 3rd disk it goes to: Trap 000d 14.062_W4 tried a couple times, even, after full power off, same any ideas ? meanwhile, rebboted from D:, works fine help.... Voytek Eymont SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/ phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 6============================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:39:28 From: Voytek Eymont Subject: [os2genau] is W4 CP1 ok on a pre-pentium ? CP1 extras CDs I have some 486s running W4 FP12; is W4 CP1 OK on a 486 ? the reson I'm thinking about upgrading, as it would be nice to run same level across all systems..... also, with the CP, there are 3 extra CDs with TCP/IP, etc, all that stuff on the extra CDs, that';s already in the CP1 install, no ? Voytek Eymont SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/ phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 7============================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:05:31 From: Voytek Eymont Subject: [os2genau] what's the keystroke combo to get behind the install full screen ? there used to be, is ? a keystroke combo to get behind the W4 install full screen ? so I can do things whilst the install installs ? (damn, in the original Warp, you were able to do all that stuff, then, they try to block it) Voytek Eymont SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/ phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 8============================================= From: "John Angelico" Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:27:35 +0900 (EST) Subject: Re: [os2genau] Was [os2genau] [eCS] Not really eCS related, but very interesting... now closed Since I find it irksome to not have the last word... On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:26:21, Voytek Eymont wrote: >** Reply to note from "John Angelico" Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:52:43 +0900 (EST) > > >> >> Steve Gibson is doing us a HUGE favour here. >> > > > >I really hate to be cynical.... but Steve has software to sell to windows >users, I guess, that's his 1st and only priority; OK - but we read him and take note of what we need to know, filter it through our own biases. > >he also seems to point out flaws in TCP/IP design, rather than anything >else; (from what I've read of his pages) What - I hope you hadn't thought we were in networking nirvana with a perfect protocol!! >whereas you and I know that, OS/2 'as is' overcomes a number of these >problems, that, alternative solutions existed on OS/2, that alternative >apps existed of OS/2 since year dot, etc, etc, etc; Steve has never pointed >that out, and, I'd be willing to be he never will (I r h t b c, but) 'Soright - we have thick skins, and it's nice to know someone else confirms the validity of OS/2 solutions even if they don't know it or like it. >I really hate to be cynical.... but Steve has software to sell to windows >users, that's his 1st and only priority; He has to eat too. I don't have to do things his way but if he offers a service that I can use, that's OK. > >(oh, yes: did you see the part where he says that result of his >PostScan/Probe might be unreliable as the Win server he uses has >fundemantal bugs that cause unreliable output ? but, he will fix it, of >course. I r h t b c, but) Yes. That's new - wasn't there when I first found his site, nor even recently. Silly him, he's gone onto Win2K. [There's no accounting for taste :) ] But he's offered a workaround. >to sum it up: > >I really hate to be cynical.... but that's my final contribution to this >futile thread. Just beware that you don't become a permanent cynic: cy'nic: n. person who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing Best regards John Angelico OS/2 SIG talldadatmelbpc dot org dot au or talldadatkepl dot com dot au -------------------------------------------- PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico .... eCS: too powerful to be Windows, too easy to be Unix. 9============================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:56:42 +1000 From: Michael Taylor Subject: Re: [os2genau] what's the keystroke combo to get behind the install full screen ? Alt-F3 or Ctrl-F3 - still works with eCS Preview 1. Voytek Eymont wrote: > > there used to be, is ? a keystroke combo to get behind the W4 install full > screen ? > > so I can do things whilst the install installs ? > > (damn, in the original Warp, you were able to do all that stuff, then, they > try to block it) > > Voytek Eymont > SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd > http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/ > phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 -- Regards, Mick -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Taylor miketatinteract dot net dot au ----------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://users.interact dot net dot au/~pmiy/ Michael Taylor +61 6 2575400 ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 10============================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:15:36 From: Voytek Eymont Subject: [os2genau] W4.5 CP1 TCP/IP amongst native wildlife OK, the story so far: I was trying to upgrade echidna to W4.5 CP1; it runs W4 FP14 TCP/IP 4.1 SMC EPII NIC; install does Trap 000d on 3rd floppy; so, I've booted bunyip from same floppies; W4.5 CP1 installed OK, no error, on bynyip Intel 8/16 NIC (except, when it asked about Java 1.3, I said YES, but, the install dissapered somewhere and never reapered) edit setup.cmd: REM net route bunyip booted OK I now InfoZIPed bunyip, and, unzipped onto echidna; edited setup.cmd for IP address, edited config for hostname; edited \ibmlan\ini for NIC; edited ibmcom\ini for netBIOS name echidna booted OK BUT: intermittent PING, can not ping certain other hosts here, some hosts can not ping echidna and/or bunyip can not share drive on either, share says 'SERVER not started' 'net start req' says: requester started 'net start server' says 'no such service' solution: reboot back to old system (W4 FP14 TCP/IP4/1); then go home any better ideas ? Voytek Eymont SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/ phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 11============================================= From: "Ian Manners" Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:45:08 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: [os2genau] W4.5 CP1 TCP/IP amongst native wildlife Hi Voytek First, check that you have a file called "services" in your x:\mptn\etc directory. re the SCSI install, I cant comment, as that wonderful company called IBM that I bought SC from, still hasnt given even bothered returning my phone calls re were is my CP !! I think the next time I buy something, it will be from Serenity, or on the bigger iron front, from SUN, you'd think that they would at least phone me back due to the $$ I've spend in the last year on RS/6000 and Websphere Pro for AIX. ok, thats my bitch for now :-) Just had to say it. It is standard with that Adaptec card to install via floppies, and I then copy the latest SCSI driver into the x:\os2\boot directory. Cheers Ian B Manners 12============================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:19:52 +1000 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: [os2genau] W4 CP1 install Trap d on 3rd floppy Hi Voytek, Does this system have a network card in it ? If so which make ?? Also are you sure there's no special requirements of the Cd Drive ? Cheers/2 Ed. Voytek Eymont wrote: > > just tried to install W4 CP1 on C-MMX300A 128MB AHA2940; > > this system runs normally W4 FP14 TCP/IP4.1 on D: > > booting from floppy, after 3rd disk it goes to: > > Trap 000d > > 14.062_W4 > > tried a couple times, even, after full power off, same > > any ideas ? > > meanwhile, rebboted from D:, works fine > > help.... > > Voytek Eymont > SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd > http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/ > phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 13============================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:25:22 +1000 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: [os2genau] W4.5 CP1 TCP/IP amongst native wildlife What message does NET START PEER give you ? Ed. Voytek Eymont wrote: > > OK, the story so far: > > I was trying to upgrade echidna to W4.5 CP1; > it runs W4 FP14 TCP/IP 4.1 SMC EPII NIC; > > install does Trap 000d on 3rd floppy; > > so, I've booted bunyip from same floppies; > W4.5 CP1 installed OK, no error, on bynyip Intel 8/16 NIC > > (except, when it asked about Java 1.3, I said YES, but, the install > dissapered somewhere and never reapered) > > edit setup.cmd: REM net route > > bunyip booted OK > > I now InfoZIPed bunyip, and, unzipped onto echidna; > edited setup.cmd for IP address, edited config for hostname; > edited \ibmlan\ini for NIC; edited ibmcom\ini for netBIOS name > > echidna booted OK > > BUT: > > intermittent PING, can not ping certain other hosts here, some hosts can not > ping echidna and/or bunyip > > can not share drive on either, share says 'SERVER not started' > 'net start req' says: requester started > 'net start server' says 'no such service' > > solution: > reboot back to old system (W4 FP14 TCP/IP4/1); then go home > > any better ideas ? > > Voytek Eymont > SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd > http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/ > phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118