Return-Path: Received: from asio.cia dot com (asio.cia dot com [209.197.145.101]) by mail. (Weasel v1.20) for ; 25 June 2001 01:00:00 From: "Digest" To: "OS/2GenAu Digest" Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 01:00:00 +1000 (EDT) Reply-To: "OS2GenAu" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: CASMailer 1.0 for OS/2 Warp PPC 1.05/G4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: No. 99 Message-ID: <200106250100.000029G6atmail.> Date:- 25 June 2001 1================================================ From: "Ian Manners" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 05:21:21 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: [os2genau] Ians early xmas Hi Ed >A minor (here comes the Pedantic Ed) change I'd suggest the Intel >processors >were 1.2 GHz, not Gb (or have they a rather *L A R G E* cache size >now?). Umm, yes, 1.2 GHz :-) >I'd be interested in an OS/2 vs Linux shoot-off on performance - the >earlier >versions of Linux were slimline and quick but it seems that some >versions >of Linux now set higher requirements for minimum hrdware ..... Both the Linux and OS/2 command line versions are very evenly matched re preformance, the Linux with GUI though is no match for OS/2 with GUI..... The base OS/2 still runs ok (just), after its booted, on a PS/2 386DX25, with Maths co-processor. Just dont even think about apps like star office though ! And make sure IBM Works is not loaded, all that extra rubbish in the ini files makes it very sluggish, and the secret to making it run ok, is to now what to remove from the config.sys file, and which files to transfer over to a 120Mb ESDI Harddisk, ie, no CDROM. I think OS/2 v3 is best for 386's, keep OS/2 v4 FP12 for 486's, and OS/2 v4+FP15 for P100's and up. >Perhaps Greg could incorporate comparison reports like this into the >os2 dot org dot au I'd better do some benchmarking ! Cheers Ian B Manners 2============================================= From: "Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 11:16:25 +1100 (EDT) Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM A question that I may have asked before.... My server IBM X220 has 128MG RAM and the WS have 65MG RAM. the server is a file and print server with network applications and data residing on the server, and each WS loads 1 Word Processing (Describe!1 Remember that great software!) 2 A DOS accounting/billing programme 3 Faxing (network) 4 Netscape (runs from each WS) 5 An email programme would the performance improve if I increased the WS RAM (128) or is the Server RAM 'more important'?? Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist Smart Road Specialist Centre Modbury SA 5092 61 8 8265 4022 (Voice) 61 8 8386 1795 (Fax) gnatsmart-road dot com dot au 3============================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 11:57:19 From: Voytek Eymont Subject: Re: [os2genau] Ians early xmas ** Reply to note from "Ian Manners" Sun, 24 Jun 2001 05:21:21 +1000 (EST) > Both the Linux and OS/2 command line versions are very evenly > matched re preformance, the Linux with GUI though is no match > for OS/2 with GUI..... that's precisely my expereience > I think OS/2 v3 is best for 386's, keep OS/2 v4 FP12 for 486's, > and OS/2 v4+FP15 for P100's and up. not that I have any 386s in use, though, I'd say, amount of RAM would have a bit to say, as well. my general recomendattions used to be: min. 16 MB for WarpC, min. 20MB Warp4 I'd think.... 386 with lotsa RAM might be OK for Warp4..? as for 486 (and, that was the reason for my earlier Q that Ed attempted to answer by quoting a readme specs): I've just installed W451 CP1 on a 486 16MB RAM, it installed with no hickups, and, so far, appears perfectly happy, and, of acceptable performance. (strangeley, a French Warp4 failed to install on same h/w with 'not enough memory', perhaps French edition needs more RAM..?) so, subject to some additional testing, I'd say W451 CP1 might be OK on 486 Voytek Eymont SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/ phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 4============================================= From: "Paul Smedley" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 12:23:02 +1100 Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM Graham, I certainly found on my workstations that performance increased greatly in going from 64mb to 128mb. Even if you applications are resident on the server, the WS still needs enough available RAM to load the applications, and things such as Netscape are quite RAM hungry. An indication that more RAM will help can be had from checking out the size of your swapper.dat and seeing if it ever grows from it's default size. Of course, depending on the age of your WS's, adding more ram may prove expensive, unless they all use SDRAM which is incredibly cheap now at ~$55 per 128mb, hence both my machines now have 256mb :) Regards, Paul. On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 11:16:25 +1100, Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist wrote: >A question that I may have asked before.... > >My server IBM X220 has 128MG RAM and the WS have 65MG RAM. the server is >a file and print server with network applications and data residing on the server, >and each WS loads > >1 Word Processing (Describe!1 Remember that great software!) >2 A DOS accounting/billing programme >3 Faxing (network) >4 Netscape (runs from each WS) >5 An email programme > > would the performance improve if I increased the WS RAM (128) or is the Server >RAM 'more important'?? > >Graham Norton FRACP >Neurologist > >Smart Road Specialist Centre >Modbury SA 5092 > >61 8 8265 4022 (Voice) >61 8 8386 1795 (Fax) >gnatsmart-road dot com dot au 5============================================= From: mfarnhamatdingoblue dot net dot au Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:02:22 +1100 Subject: Re: [os2genau] Ians early xmas In <200106240521.00002CBHatmail.>, on 06/24/01 at 05:21 AM, "Ian Manners" said: CUT >The base OS/2 still runs ok (just), after its booted, on a PS/2 386DX25, >with Maths co-processor. Just dont even think about apps like star office >though ! >And make sure IBM Works is not loaded, all that extra rubbish in the ini >files makes it very sluggish, and the secret to making it run ok, is to >now what to remove from the config.sys file, and which files to transfer >over to a 120Mb ESDI Harddisk, ie, no CDROM. Ahh the memories! My first computer was a 386dx33 with 4mb and a 120md Conner HD on which I ran 2.11. This was sufficient for most things, even running Borland Paradox DB in win-os2 (though you had time to fetch water and boil a cuppa waiting for it to load). When I was able to afford another 4mb (I was a poor starving student at the time) the price was near to $100 Paradox would load in around 10secs. Mark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- mfarnhamatdingoblue dot net dot au Sunday, June 24, 2001 - 01:02 PM ----------- "Lord, Grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they pissed me off." ----------- Mark Farnham Mackay, Queensland, Australia. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6============================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 01 12:46:24 +1000 From: "Simon Coulter" Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM =8C Hello Graham, You wrote: >My server IBM X220 has 128MG RAM ... It's not like a terminal server so the applications run on the WS which = implies that WS RAM would help. However, 128MB is probably fine for all = you're running. You could check the size of the swapper while all the = applications are active which will give you an idea of whether more RAM i= s = needed. I have 128MB in my desktop and 192MB in my Thinkpad and that's = enough for Netscape, SmartSuite, QuickBooks, Peer, e-mail, DB/2, VAJ, and= = sundry other stuff all active at the same time -- although I do have quit= e = a large swap file :) I have just purchased an X220 (864542X) with 256MB RAM and both WSeB and = Merlin CP trap during installation (2nd diskette part of CD) while trying= = to load the ibmint13.i13 driver. Since you have your server installed ca= n = you tell me what BIOS level and revision you are running? (The TUExxxxAU= S = value and the revision.) If you don't know the values you can get them = from the BIOS setup, which means a reboot so don't bother if it's not = convenient. I'll be 'phoning IBM support on Monday about this but that information ma= y = help diagnose the problem. I might as well make use of the 90 day OS = installation support :) The xSeries web site has all the information one could want about = installing Windoze, Linux, and even Netware, but sod all about OS/2 other= = than it is certified for the hardware. Why am I not surprised ... Regards, Simon Coulter. =AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB= =BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB= =AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB =AB=BB FlyByNight Software AS/400 Technical Specialists =AB= =BB =AB=BB Eclipse the competition - run your business on an IBM AS/400. =AB= =BB =AB=BB =AB= =BB =AB=BB Phone: +61 3 9419 0175 Mobile: +61 0411 091 400 /"\ =AB= =BB =AB=BB Fax: +61 3 9419 0175 mailto: shcatflybynight dot com dot au \ / =AB= =BB =AB=BB X =AB= =BB =AB=BB ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail / \ =AB= =BB =AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB= =BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB= =AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB= 7============================================= From: "Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:54:19 +1100 (EDT) Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM Simon You will find IBM in Australia very 'unsupportive'!! At least I did but= there are one of two people that can help and are on side and if you go to the X220 IBM = support page and download the Adeptec SCSI drivers for WSEB you will find the = file contains explicit directions on creating the install disks!! YOu cant = use the CD Installation discs!! I have however imported the ServerGuide V5.0.5 CD ROM which does suppor= t the CD install... failing that I can post or email you the installation flo= ppies!! On Sun, 24 Jun 01 12:46:24 +1000, Simon Coulter wrote: > >Hello Graham, > >You wrote: >>My server IBM X220 has 128MG RAM ... > >It's not like a terminal server so the applications run on the WS which= >implies that WS RAM would help. However, 128MB is probably fine for al= l >you're running. You could check the size of the swapper while all the = >applications are active which will give you an idea of whether more RAM= is >needed. I have 128MB in my desktop and 192MB in my Thinkpad and that's= >enough for Netscape, SmartSuite, QuickBooks, Peer, e-mail, DB/2, VAJ, a= nd >sundry other stuff all active at the same time -- although I do have qu= ite >a large swap file :) > >I have just purchased an X220 (864542X) with 256MB RAM and both WSeB an= d >Merlin CP trap during installation (2nd diskette part of CD) while tryi= ng >to load the ibmint13.i13 driver. Since you have your server installed = can >you tell me what BIOS level and revision you are running? (The TUExxxx= AUS >value and the revision.) If you don't know the values you can get them= >from the BIOS setup, which means a reboot so don't bother if it's not >convenient. > >I'll be 'phoning IBM support on Monday about this but that information = may >help diagnose the problem. I might as well make use of the 90 day OS >installation support :) > >The xSeries web site has all the information one could want about >installing Windoze, Linux, and even Netware, but sod all about OS/2 oth= er >than it is certified for the hardware. Why am I not surprised ... > >Regards, >Simon Coulter. > >=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF= =AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF= =AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF >=AE=AF FlyByNight Software AS/400 Technical Specialists =AE= =AF >=AE=AF Eclipse the competition - run your business on an IBM AS/400. =AE= =AF >=AE=AF =AE= =AF >=AE=AF Phone: +61 3 9419 0175 Mobile: +61 0411 091 400 /"\ =AE= =AF >=AE=AF Fax: +61 3 9419 0175 mailto: shcatflybynight dot com dot au \ / =AE= =AF >=AE=AF X =AE= =AF >=AE=AF ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail / \ =AE= =AF >=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF= =AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF= =AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF >*----------------------------------------------------------------------= -----------* > Archive Access. U To Subscribe/Unsubscribe please= go to http://www.os2site.com/list/ > Graham Norton President OS2 Users Group SA 8============================================= From: "Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:57:34 +1100 (EDT) Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical Hi All Well using two different NIC card... (ADSL Firewall PC ) 1 Accton 10/100 Cheetah 2 Surecom 10/100 PCI card has cured the problem and now I am able to see both cards and as well TCPIP runs on the machine although the next hurdle is to configure the setup as well as Injoy Firewall!! will keep you all posted!! Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist Smart Road Specialist Centre Modbury SA 5092 61 8 8265 4022 (Voice) 61 8 8386 1795 (Fax) gnatsmart-road dot com dot au 9============================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 15:49:57 +1000 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM The most key factor here is whether the PCs are swapping to disk when they run their applications. There are various freeware monitoring programs that can show you this or simply set the swapper settings in config.sys back to the default 2048 2048, run the WS for a ay and then look and see how big the swapper.dat is. If it hasn't increased in size the PC is not swapping and adding memory is only going to give a very limited improvement. If the swapper.dat is 30MB or more, then add extra memory to the WS. Extra memory can never harm. If your looking for a way to improve PC performance though, I'd suggest you look at changing the HDs out. They're probably 5400 RPM models and you WILL notice an improvement going to 7200RPM models. If you are running 66 or 100 MHz ATA EIDE interface you could also consider going to 10,000 RPM (but these drives are still pretty expensive). If you have money to burn, there's also 15,000 RPM models now ! Cheers/2 Ed. Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist wrote: > > would the performance improve if I increased the WS RAM (128) or is the Server > RAM 'more important'?? 10============================================= From: "Ian Manners" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 17:43:32 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical Hi Graham >using two different NIC card... (ADSL Firewall PC ) Installing two identical cards requires some manual editing of the protocol.ini file, and its always easier to just use two different cards (two different chipsets) that require two different drivers. >has cured the problem and now I am able to see both cards and as well TCPIP >runs on the machine although the next hurdle is to configure the setup as well as >Injoy Firewall!! I can send you basic firerule and filter files if you would like some, the main thing I need to know, is if you are using any servers internally for external use, which I assume your not. I need to catch up on previous emails sent to the list so if your've already given an outline, I'll get it from here. Re the RAM issue, yes, put more RAM in your client PC rather than your server, what your server has should be more than enough. With the InJoy Firewall, running the text interface uses up a lot less CPU. Cheers Ian B Manners 11============================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:30:28 +1000 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical Just to agree with Ian, don't run the Firewall GUI, not only does it use CPU, its simply to complicated to look at - the commandline version sits there and simply runs. To you Ian - I didn't think Graham could run an Internet server (web or mail) from behind the firewall as he is using NAT. I thought he'd have to run it on the firewall PC, have I got this wrong ? Cheers/2 Ed. Ian Manners wrote: > > Hi Graham > > > I can send you basic firerule and filter files if you would like some, the > main thing I need to know, is if you are using any servers internally > for external use, which I assume your not. 12============================================= From: "Ian Manners" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 19:03:08 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical Hi Ed >To you Ian - I didn't think Graham could run an Internet >server (web or mail) from behind the firewall as he is using >NAT. I thought he'd have to run it on the firewall PC, have > I got this wrong ? Graham can :-) I use Injoy Firewall for all my servers, NATed, ie just place portmapping rules so that specific IP's are mapped to internal IP's, and only allowing select ports through to these IP's. All other traffic from inside the firewall looks like it comes from 210.8.201.190, All servers inside (including os2 dot org dot au), are mapped from there respective internal IP's to there respective internal IP's, the firewall itself only has InJoy Firewall, a time server, and the RC5DES proxy on it. This means that I can access all servers inside using the local LAN, with netbuei and netbios cut off from the outside world completely. Makes backing up, and working on the servers a lot more secure, as well as easier, its bloody freezing down in the bomb shelter ! Cheers Ian B Manners 13============================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 19:52:15 +1000 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical Should this have said their respective internal to external ..... Apart from that - thanks for the Tip. Hmm, looks like a major network re-design going to happen in the Durrant LAN.... Cheers/2 Ed. > All servers inside (including os2 dot org dot au), are mapped from there > respective internal IP's to there respective internal IP's, the > firewall itself only has InJoy Firewall, a time server, > and the RC5DES proxy on it. 14============================================= From: "Ian Manners" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:03:03 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical Hi Ed >Should this have said their respective internal to external ..... Oops, saying that a lot today :-) >Apart from that - thanks for the Tip. Hmm, looks like a major >network re-design going to happen in the Durrant LAN.... I you or anyone else is interested, I'll post my portmapping rules, also note that any internal servers that are NATed require Alias external IP's on the external firewall LAN interface, otherwise people in the outside world cant find the external IP's :-) I can put all this in a text file on one of the sites. Cheers Ian B Manners 15============================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:13:09 +1000 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical This is what I was wondering - how could someone extrnal know the correct address/port to get to the internal server. To the external (internet) systems they will only use a name or an IP address. Perhaps if you could put something up on one of the sites it may make it clearer. Also what happens if your connection is DHCP - does DYNDNS still work through a firewall ?? Cheers/2 Ed. Ian Manners wrote: > > Hi Ed > > >Should this have said their respective internal to external ..... > > Oops, saying that a lot today :-) > > >Apart from that - thanks for the Tip. Hmm, looks like a major > >network re-design going to happen in the Durrant LAN.... > > I you or anyone else is interested, I'll post my portmapping > rules, also note that any internal servers that are NATed require > Alias external IP's on the external firewall LAN interface, otherwise > people in the outside world cant find the external IP's :-) > > I can put all this in a text file on one of the sites. > > Cheers > Ian B Manners 16============================================= From: "Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:11:54 +1100 (EDT) Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM Ed as I have almost all the applications on the server and *all* the data files, the only software on each WS in Netscape and the WS /client of PMFax for OS2.... I am not sure how spending money on faster HD would help? As it is they are certainly old ( 6 years or so and 1.2G) yet there is enough space for me to have each WS with C Drive - OS2 D Drive - maintenance partition E Drive - Data and the data partition is still about 700 MG and only about 30% used!! I routinely set the swapper dat to 6159 61590 I think that the cost is such that I can buy RAM. We did upgrade the mother boards and CPU just before the year 2000. On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 15:49:57 +1000, Ed Durrant wrote: >The most key factor here is whether the PCs are swapping >to disk when they run their applications. There are various >freeware monitoring programs that can show you this or >simply set the swapper settings in config.sys back to the >default 2048 2048, run the WS for a ay and then look and >see how big the swapper.dat is. If it hasn't increased in >size the PC is not swapping and adding memory is only going >to give a very limited improvement. If the swapper.dat is >30MB or more, then add extra memory to the WS. Extra >memory can never harm. If your looking for a way to >improve PC performance though, I'd suggest you look >at changing the HDs out. They're probably 5400 RPM >models and you WILL notice an improvement going to >7200RPM models. If you are running 66 or 100 MHz ATA >EIDE interface you could also consider going to 10,000 RPM >(but these drives are still pretty expensive). If you have >money to burn, there's also 15,000 RPM models now ! > >Cheers/2 > >Ed. > > >Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist wrote: >> >> would the performance improve if I increased the WS RAM (128) or is the Server >> RAM 'more important'?? Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist Smart Road Specialist Centre Modbury SA 5092 61 8 8265 4022 (Voice) 61 8 8386 1795 (Fax) gnatsmart-road dot com dot au