From: Digest To: "OS/2GenAu Digest" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:01:04 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600 Subject: [os2genau_digest] No. 452 Reply-To: X-List-Unsubscribe: www.os2site.com/list/ ************************************************** Monday 23 September 2002 Number 452 ************************************************** Subjects for today 1 Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? : Voytek Eymont 2 Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? : Ian Manners" 3 Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? : Ian Manners" 4 Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? : Ed Durrant 5 Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? : Ed Durrant 6 Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? : Ed Durrant 7 Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? : Ed Durrant 8 Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? : Gavin Miller" 9 Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? : Ian Manners" 10 [os2genau] for trekkies : Kev Downes 11 [os2genau] Australian PC Oct Mag : Ian Manners" 12 Re: [os2genau] Australian PC Oct Mag : Ed Durrant 13 Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? : Ed Durrant 14 [os2genau] * Reminder * - Melbourne OS/2 SIG Meeting TOMORROW : Ian Manners" 15 [os2genau] * Right Reminder * - Melbourne OS/2 SIG Meeting TOMORROW : Ian Manners" 16 [os2genau] FS: Xircom CM-56G PC-Card v90 modem : Daryl Pilkington" **= Email 1 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 00:22:47 From: Voytek Eymont Subject: Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? ** Reply to note from Ed Durrant Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:50:45 +1000 > Does anyone know where the specs for OS/2 Warp 3 are on the web. I mean > things like min/max memory size, harddrive/partition size, processor > etc. i have a customer who swares that OS/2 Warp 3 could only ever work > with a maximum of 64 MB or RAM. I'm sure this wasn't the case but I need > to try to find some documented proof. The Manual that comes with warp 3 > only defines the Minimum not the maximum requirements. perhaps it's a hardware issue: as I recall, the early Pentium m/b only supported max. of 64MB RAM, or. more to the point, could only address max of 64MB; so, if the hardware couldn't do it, what does it matter ? I have an old ThinkPad 160MB HD, with a working copy of Warp3. Voytek Eymont SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/ phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 2 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 01:46:49 +1000 (EST) From: "Ian Manners" Subject: Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? Hi Ed >Does anyone know where the specs for OS/2 Warp 3 are on the web. I mean >things like min/max memory size, harddrive/partition size, processor I've had a look but cant see any info obviously relating to Max RAM, only minumum hardware specs. I can tell you that Warp3, FP43 runs with full access to 128MB RAM on an IBM PS/2 Model 77i with an Intel Pentium OD80. >etc. i have a customer who swares that OS/2 Warp 3 could only ever work >with a maximum of 64 MB or RAM. I'm sure this wasn't the case but I need >to try to find some documented proof. The Manual that comes with warp 3 >only defines the Minimum not the maximum requirements. As Voytek mentioned, might be his Hardware, has he checked his BIOS settings if its nonIBM, and made sure MEM for OS/2 is "OFF" ? If its an early IBM ValuePoint, I can vagely remember something about a patch for Keyboard and RAM problems, early 486 models only I think. Cheers Ian B Manners Windows: A View to be Killed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 3 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 01:58:48 +1000 (EST) From: "Ian Manners" Subject: Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? http://www.os2site dot com/sw/info/faq/ warpfaq3.zip ============================ (2.6) More Than 16 MB RAM Can I use more than 16 MB of RAM? OS/2 Warp will address all the RAM in your system. If the BIOS recognizes the memory, OS/2 Warp will find it and use it. However, on certain systems the RAM beyond the 16 MB boundary may be used as a fast swap area. OS/2 Warp relies on its swap file, SWAPPER.DAT, to hold code and data which cannot fit into real memory (i.e. to provide virtual memory). If the swap file (and applications) can only be accessed via a hard disk adapter which uses 24-bit DMA for disk access (e.g. the Adaptec 154x series), then the system must move code and data below the 16 MB boundary before it can write it to disk. This "double move" is costly (in terms of performance), and often OS/2 Warp will merely use all the RAM above the 16 MB boundary as a fast swap area (before writing to disk) to avoid the problem. It is up to the hard disk adapter driver, however, to decide how to handle this situation. Only AT bus adapters are limited to 24-bit DMA. Microchannel, EISA, VESA LocalBus, and other 32-bit adapters are not so limited. Moreover, only a select few AT bus hard disk adapters utilize DMA. Nearly all MFM, RLL, ESDI, and IDE adapters, and most SCSI adapters, do not use DMA for disk access. Suffice it to say that, regardless of your present hardware, OS/2 Warp will take advantage of it as best it can. However, if you are planning new hardware purchases, you may wish to take this particular hardware design limitation into account. Specifically, if you plan to install more than 16 MB of RAM in your system, either choose a 32-bit hard disk adapter (Microchannel or PCI, for example) or choose an AT bus adapter which does not utilize DMA for disk access (a standard IDE adapter, an Adaptec 152x series SCSI adapter, or a Future Domain SCSI adapter, for example). The performance trade-off is highly system dependent, however. You may find that even DMA adapters such as the Adaptec 154x series outperform the alternatives in certain cases. Cheers Ian B Manners Idiot Filter: "Ya, we run the C++ operating system on a QNX platform over FDDI twisted pair at 600 MIPS." If they swallow that, hang up. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 4 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 06:42:19 +1000 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? Thanks Gavin, I have the minimum specs (interestingly though, the handbook that is packed with OS/2 Warp 3 says 4 MB minimum RAM, you say the box (I don't have the box any more) says 8MB ? What I need in a documented form is if the OS is installed on a machine with e.g. 128MB of RAM, that it will be used. I believe the 16bit OS/2 (1.x) used memory over 64MB in a different way (hence the setting in many BIOSes, even to this day) and that's where the confusion is coming from. Of course Windows 95 OSR2 (not Microsoft's interesting naming of the product), only used memory over 64MB as a disk cache. Cheers/2 Ed. Gavin Miller wrote: > G'day Ed, > > I currently have Warp 3 connect running on a PS/2 35sx, which is a 386 with 6Mb Ram > and a 540Mb HD, with network support. It's slow, but works. > > On the box it says: > Intel 386sx - compat or higher > 8mb Min RAM > 90mb free HD (easy install option) > 1.44 3.5 FD "A" > VGA > Suported LAN adapter > IBM compat mouse > Multimedia ready systems for sound > OS/2 compat CD rom drive > BonusPak requires upto 30Mb additional free space and 9600 baud or higher modem > > Cheers > G > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:50:45 +1000, Ed Durrant wrote: > > >Does anyone know where the specs for OS/2 Warp 3 are on the web. I mean > >things like min/max memory size, harddrive/partition size, processor > >etc. i have a customer who swares that OS/2 Warp 3 could only ever work > >with a maximum of 64 MB or RAM. I'm sure this wasn't the case but I need > >to try to find some documented proof. The Manual that comes with warp 3 > >only defines the Minimum not the maximum requirements. > > > >Cheers/2 > > > >Ed. > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 5 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 06:43:57 +1000 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? The hardware in use are IBM Netfinity 3000 servers, so the hardware can definately address more that 64MB. I take your point though. Cheers/2 Ed. Voytek Eymont wrote: > ** Reply to note from Ed Durrant Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:50:45 +1000 > > > Does anyone know where the specs for OS/2 Warp 3 are on the web. I mean > > things like min/max memory size, harddrive/partition size, processor > > etc. i have a customer who swares that OS/2 Warp 3 could only ever work > > with a maximum of 64 MB or RAM. I'm sure this wasn't the case but I need > > to try to find some documented proof. The Manual that comes with warp 3 > > only defines the Minimum not the maximum requirements. > > perhaps it's a hardware issue: > as I recall, the early Pentium m/b only supported max. of 64MB RAM, or. more to > the point, could only address max of 64MB; > > so, if the hardware couldn't do it, what does it matter ? > > I have an old ThinkPad 160MB HD, with a working copy of Warp3. > > Voytek Eymont > SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd > http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/ > phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 6 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 06:47:12 +1000 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? I believe the hardware is configured correctly, as I mentioned in my reply to Voytek, these are Netfinity 3000's. I don't believe there is a problem, it purely a conception that this customer has that warp 3 can't address over 64MB. I simply can't find any written doco, defining what it can address and use. I'd expect it to be at least 2 GB but as I said, I just can't find anything that I can point this customer to as a reference ! Cheers/2 Ed. Ian Manners wrote: > Hi Ed > > >Does anyone know where the specs for OS/2 Warp 3 are on the web. I mean > >things like min/max memory size, harddrive/partition size, processor > > I've had a look but cant see any info obviously relating to Max RAM, > only minumum hardware specs. > > I can tell you that Warp3, FP43 runs with full access to 128MB RAM > on an IBM PS/2 Model 77i with an Intel Pentium OD80. > > >etc. i have a customer who swares that OS/2 Warp 3 could only ever work > >with a maximum of 64 MB or RAM. I'm sure this wasn't the case but I need > >to try to find some documented proof. The Manual that comes with warp 3 > >only defines the Minimum not the maximum requirements. > > As Voytek mentioned, might be his Hardware, has he checked his > BIOS settings if its nonIBM, and made sure MEM for OS/2 is "OFF" ? > > If its an early IBM ValuePoint, I can vagely remember something > about a patch for Keyboard and RAM problems, early 486 models > only I think. > > Cheers > Ian B Manners > > Windows: A View to be Killed. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 7 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 06:53:14 +1000 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? Thanks Ian, I've downloaded that document. By the way, your OS/2 Strategy document is the old (2001), you might wish to replace it with the 2002 one ? its at http://www-3.ibm dot com/software/os/warp/strategy/ Cheers/2 Ed. Ian Manners wrote: > http://www.os2site dot com/sw/info/faq/ warpfaq3.zip > > ============================ > > (2.6) More Than 16 MB RAM > > Can I use more than 16 MB of RAM? > > OS/2 Warp will address all the RAM in your system. If the BIOS recognizes the > memory, OS/2 Warp will find it and use it. > > However, on certain systems the RAM beyond the 16 MB boundary may be used as a > fast swap area. OS/2 Warp relies on its swap file, SWAPPER.DAT, to hold code > and data which cannot fit into real memory (i.e. to provide virtual memory). > If the swap file (and applications) can only be accessed via a hard disk > adapter which uses 24-bit DMA for disk access (e.g. the Adaptec 154x series), > then the system must move code and data below the 16 MB boundary before it can > write it to disk. This "double move" is costly (in terms of performance), and > often OS/2 Warp will merely use all the RAM above the 16 MB boundary as a fast > swap area (before writing to disk) to avoid the problem. It is up to the hard > disk adapter driver, however, to decide how to handle this situation. > > Only AT bus adapters are limited to 24-bit DMA. Microchannel, EISA, VESA > LocalBus, and other 32-bit adapters are not so limited. Moreover, only a > select few AT bus hard disk adapters utilize DMA. Nearly all MFM, RLL, ESDI, > and IDE adapters, and most SCSI adapters, do not use DMA for disk access. > > Suffice it to say that, regardless of your present hardware, OS/2 Warp will > take advantage of it as best it can. However, if you are planning new > hardware purchases, you may wish to take this particular hardware design > limitation into account. Specifically, if you plan to install more than 16 MB > of RAM in your system, either choose a 32-bit hard disk adapter (Microchannel > or PCI, for example) or choose an AT bus adapter which does not utilize DMA > for disk access (a standard IDE adapter, an Adaptec 152x series SCSI adapter, > or a Future Domain SCSI adapter, for example). The performance trade-off is > highly system dependent, however. You may find that even DMA adapters such as > the Adaptec 154x series outperform the alternatives in certain cases. > > Cheers > Ian B Manners > > Idiot Filter: "Ya, we run the C++ operating system on a QNX platform over > FDDI twisted pair at 600 MIPS." If they swallow that, hang up. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 8 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:57:14 +1100 (EDT) From: "Gavin Miller" Subject: Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? Hi Ed, Sorry I misinterpreted the question. It was my understanding that all versions of Warp could handle over 64Mb ram. It was only the pre-warp versions of OS/2 that had the different addressing method, and hence the bios option for os/2 memory addressing. I've heard alot of windows users talk about this and all of them have had the same preconception that your customer has. They see the option about OS/2 and memory and automatically apply a theory for all versions of os/2 without ever using or investigating. I could install Warp3 connect on my machine here. It has 128mb Oh and about the min specs on the box. Warp 3 was indeed 4mb min, Warp 3 connect is 8mb min. I had copies of both. Warp 3 came preinstalled on my PC350. Warp 3 connect I bought later, but the documentation came from Warp 3 and does mention the 4mb min spec even though the box says 8. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 9 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 12:17:47 +1000 (EST) From: "Ian Manners" Subject: Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? Hi Ed >By the way, your OS/2 Strategy document is the old (2001), you might wish to replace >it with the 2002 one ? >its at http://www-3.ibm dot com/software/os/warp/strategy/ Thanks, added it :-) ok, I have unrared my OS/2 Warp v3 FP40 image from CD onto a spare SCSI drive, altered the config.sys and added Adaptec SCSI drivers from earlier this year, reset the video to VGA, unplugged the other SCSI HD's in my Netfinity 3000 here, and booted OS/2 Warp3, it access's and reports 768MB of ram :-) Cheers Ian B Manners C Code. C Code Run. Run, Code, RUN! PLEASE!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 10 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:10:26 +0900 From: Kev Downes Subject: [os2genau] for trekkies ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following message is forwarded to you by Kev Downes ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Star Trek & Microsoft "Star Trek Lost Episodes" transcript "Mr. LaForge, have you had any success with your attempts at finding a weakness in the Borg? And Mr. Data, have you been able to access their command pathways?" "Yes, Captain. In fact, we found the answer by searching through our archives on late Twentieth-century computing technology." "What the hell is `Microsoft'?" "Allow me to explain. We will send this program, for some reason called `Windows', through the Borg command pathways. Once inside their root command unit, it will begin consuming system resources at an unstoppable rate." "But the Borg have the ability to adapt. Won't they alter their processing systems to increase their storage capacity?" "Yes, Captain. But when `Windows' detects this, it creates a new version of itself known as an `upgrade'. The use of resources increases exponentially with each iteration. The Borg will not be able to adapt quickly enough. Eventually all of their processing ability will be taken over and none will be available for their normal operational functions." "Excellent work. This is even better than that `unsolvable geometric shape' idea." . . . 15 Minutes Later . . . "Captain, we have successfully installed the `Windows' in the Borg's command unit. As expected, it immediately consumed 85% of all available resources. However, we have not received any confirmation of the expected `upgrade'." "Our scanners have picked up an increase in Borg storage and CPU capacity, but we still have no indication of an `upgrade' to compensate for their increase." "Data, scan the history banks again and determine if there is something we have missed." "Sir, I believe there is a reason for the failure in the `upgrade'. Apparently the Borg have circumvented that part of the plan by not sending in their registration cards." "Captain, we have no choice. Requesting permission to begin emergency escape sequence 3F ...." "Wait, Captain! Their CPU capacity has suddenly dropped to 0% !" "Data, what does your scanners show?" "Apparently the Borg have found the internal `Windows' module named `Solitaire', and it has used up all available CPU capacity." "Let's wait and see how long this `Solitaire' can reduce their functionality." . . . Two Hours Pass . . . "Geordi, what is the status of the Borg?" "As expected, the Borg are attempting to re-engineer to compensate for increased CPU and storage demands, but each time they successfully increase resources I have setup our closest deep space monitor beacon to transmit more `Windows' modules from something called the `Microsoft Fun-pack'. "How much time will that buy us?" "Current Borg solution rates allow me to predicate an interest time span of 6 more hours." "Captain, another vessel has entered our sector." "Identify." "It appears to have markings very similar to the 'Microsoft' logo..." "THIS IS ADMIRAL BILL GATES OF THE MICROSOFT FLAGSHIP _MONOPOLY_. WE HAVE POSITIVE CONFIRMATION OF UNREGISTERED SOFTWARE IN THIS SECTOR. SURRENDER ALL ASSETS AND WE CAN AVOID ANY TROUBLE. YOU HAVE 10 SECONDS TO COMPLY." "The alien ship has just opened its forward hatches and released thousands of humanoid-shaped objects." "Magnify forward viewer on the alien craft!" "My God, captain! Those are human beings floating straight toward the Borg ship - with no life support suits! How can they survive the tortures of deep space?!" "I don't believe that those are humans, sir. If you will look closer I believe you will see that they are carrying something recognized by twenty-first century man as doeskin leather briefcases, and wearing Armani suits." "Lawyers!!" "It can't be. All the Lawyers were rounded up and sent hurtling into the sun in 2017 during the Great Awakening." "True, but apparently some must have survived." "They have surrounded the Borg ship and are covering it with all types of papers." "I believe that is known in ancient vernacular as `red tape'. It often proves fatal." "They're tearing the Borg to pieces!" "Turn the monitors off, Data, I cant bear to watch. Even the Borg doesn't deserve such a gruesome death!" ----------------------------------------------------- -- End of forwarded message ----------------------------------------------------- ========================= Kev Downes Windows is not the answer. Windows is the question. The answer is NO! We use and recommend IBM OS/2 Warp and Serenity System's eComStation. ========================= "Jesus Christ is the centre of everything and the object of everything; and he who does not know him, knows nothing of the order of the world and nothing of himself." Blaise Pascal ========================= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 11 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:56:16 +1000 (EST) From: "Ian Manners" Subject: [os2genau] Australian PC Oct Mag Hi all I ventured out and purchased the latest APC to see if anything had changed, also as I've run out of reading material for the thrown. Yea on page 26 is an article by Daryl Pilkington, entitled "Acronym Anerism" tis nice to know feelings on this subject are shared, as they should, as it is only logical. Cheers Ian B Manners Ballmer's Law: Anything that can go wrong, will be included FREE. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 12 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 18:21:59 +1000 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: [os2genau] Australian PC Oct Mag hey, I've had the mag since saturday and didn't see the letter from Daryl. I'd amend one point however it should say 600W or even Kw, MW etc. not 600mW !! Actually it looks like APC might even be squeezing themselves slowly out from under Microsoft's thumb. The cover story and picture certainly doesn't portray Windows as the wonderful OS that they used to say it was (it's a BSOD picture with reference to how long you will waste getting it going again). Also there's been references in the mag as to how to get your money back from Microsoft when buy a new PC that has the Windows infection on the drive for the last few months and this month's review of Lycoris (aka Redmond Linux) and it's inclusion on the cover CD is definately not what Microsoft would like to see. Cheers/2 Ed. Ian Manners wrote: > Hi all > > I ventured out and purchased the latest APC to see if anything > had changed, also as I've run out of reading material for the > thrown. Yea on page 26 is an article by Daryl Pilkington, entitled > "Acronym Anerism" tis nice to know feelings on this subject are > shared, as they should, as it is only logical. > > Cheers > Ian B Manners > > Ballmer's Law: Anything that can go wrong, will be included FREE. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 13 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 18:28:11 +1000 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: [os2genau] Specs on Os/2 Warp 3 Connect ?? Ian, thanks for the practical proof of the document. The customer had actually REMOVED RAM when they got the 128MB Netfinity 3000's because they thought it wouldn't work ! Double Doh ! Ed. Ian Manners wrote: > Hi Ed > > >By the way, your OS/2 Strategy document is the old (2001), you might wish to replace > >it with the 2002 one ? > >its at http://www-3.ibm dot com/software/os/warp/strategy/ > > Thanks, added it :-) > > ok, I have unrared my OS/2 Warp v3 FP40 image from CD onto a spare > SCSI drive, altered the config.sys and added Adaptec SCSI drivers from > earlier this year, reset the video to VGA, unplugged the other SCSI HD's > in my Netfinity 3000 here, and booted OS/2 Warp3, it access's and reports > 768MB of ram :-) > > Cheers > Ian B Manners > > C Code. C Code Run. Run, Code, RUN! PLEASE!!!! > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 14 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 21:54:22 +1000 (EST) From: "Ian Manners" Subject: [os2genau] * Reminder * - Melbourne OS/2 SIG Meeting TOMORROW We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Melbourne OS/2 SIG Meeting Date: Tuesday, 27th August 2002 Time: 6:30PM - 9:30PM Place: Melbourne PC Group Victoria, Australia. The Monthly Meeting of Melbourne OS/2 SIG Normally held the fourth Tuesday of each month. My fault (Ian) this message didnt go out, I've been messin with a new mail server :-( Cheers Ian B Manners Eradicate IE Bugs! Find and fix those pesky bugs with these alerts and solutions in the Help Channel:- Get Netscape Navigator 4.5. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 15 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 21:56:24 +1000 (EST) From: "Ian Manners" Subject: [os2genau] * Right Reminder * - Melbourne OS/2 SIG Meeting TOMORROW AAAAARRRRRRghhh Make that =>> Melbourne OS/2 SIG Meeting Date: Tuesday, 24th September 2002 Time: 6:30PM - 9:30PM Place: Melbourne PC Group Victoria, Australia. Cheers Ian B Manners He's dead Jim....you get his tricoder, I'll grab his wallet! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 16 ==========================** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:22:02 +1000 (EST) From: "Daryl Pilkington" Subject: [os2genau] FS: Xircom CM-56G PC-Card v90 modem Hi, I've mistakenly purchased a Xircom CM-56G PC-Card v90 modem, thinking it was a 10/100 LAN adapter as well. This is a proper hardware modem, OS/2 friendly. If anyone is interested in purchasing this for $130 + delivery, please reply off-list. Regards, Daryl Pilkington //// The PC-Therapist, Business Computing Integration O OS/2 Warp, Redhat Linux, DB2 IBM Certified Systems Expert email: darylp at pc-therapist dot com dot au Mob: 0425-251-300 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------