From: Digest To: "OS/2GenAu Digest" Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:04:02 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600 Subject: [os2genau_digest] No. 744 Reply-To: X-List-Unsubscribe: www.os2site.com/list/ ************************************************** Tuesday 09 December 2003 Number 744 ************************************************** Subjects for today 1 Re: OS/2 CP owners : k.downes at optusnet dot com dot au 2 Re: OS/2 CP owners : Gavin Miller" 3 Re: OS/2 CP owners : John Angelico" 4 CD-ROM troubles? : John Angelico" 5 Re: Bigpond Cable : Ed Durrant 6 Re: CD-ROM troubles? : Ed Durrant 7 Re: OS/2 CP owners : Simon Coulter **= Email 1 ==========================** Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 10:12:23 +0800 From: k.downes at optusnet dot com dot au Subject: Re: OS/2 CP owners Hi Gize. Well, I certainly set a cat amongst the pidgeons, didn't I! I ALWAYS do fresh installs of new versions of OS/2 - eCS, and this time was no exception. My hardware is also oldish - BIOS date is 11/99 - and nothing has changed or moved. I simply backed up one of my partitions one day, reformatted that partition and installed eCS1.1 - many times now. My modems have been external for many years now, and the one I currently have (an Acermodem 56 Surf) has been in use for about 3 yrs. It works fine, as evidenced by the fact that I'm back in my 1.03 partition and catching up on all my email. PMFax works here, IBMWorks works here and InJoy works here. Neither fresh installs nor previous installs of these work under 1.1 - and I want all 3 of those apps. Btw, yes I have tried both SIO2K.SYS and IBM's COM.SYS. One thing which I am finding more and more a pain in the arse is this idea that after an install I should count it as normal to spend the next 6 months finding out how get the system running the way it should. I have, since my first whinge to this group a couple of days ago, played with a 2nd PC and WinXP along with my son's. The system immediately and correctly found ALL of my hardware and set it all up. The system immediately and correctly found the network and set me up talking to the other machine. Everything just happens, and a dunce like me (who, btw, is such a non-technical dunce that I have never been able to sort out how to get OS/2 peer networked) can just sit back and actually use my machine, instead of getting it running being the end unto itself. I'm afraid that what I've read in response to my post has really helped push me further along that slippery road to perdition ... er, Windoze. My problem is that I'm not a computer professional of any description. I'm not technically savvy in any way wrt computers, and it seems I have to be to use anything other than Windoze. Thanx for all the responses gize. Regards Kev Downes In <0083158430.000006GS at [192.168.0.3]>, on 12/04/2003 at 11:01 PM, "John Angelico" said: >Server with 36Gb SCSI HDD and P100 CPU CD and CD burner, old video, not >even APM - it's so old. >Simple, just serves and backs up data with BA2K v4. >Office Internet gateway and my main workhorse (working on it now). >Installed two weekends ago. Athlon 2.4Ghz chip, 256MB ram, onboard video >etc. aka all mod cons. >Could your experience of "breaking all your apps" be actually the simpler >problem that the install is a matter of "scrape off the old, pour in the >new" which means NOT an upgrade and therefore you get an entirely new set >of INI files? >I had to recreate all my objects, re-create Launchpad and WarpCenter, etc >ad nauseum. First time up each of my apps wouldn't work. I had to find >all my extra DLLs, add paths, tweak my CONFIG.SYS. All the stuff was >there and I have only had to re-install two apps (one Wind16, the other >DeScribe). Some apps were 'automatically' upgraded by the install. >Oh, sorry I had a major problem with USB nicking the IRQ for the NIC, but >that was just plain stupid. >Latest discovery PMFax isn't receiving like it used to. I have to find >out how to re-establish receiving mode, could be that I now have an >external modem instead of my trusty old internal Banksia (no ISA in these >new m/boards). >But I now have 16M colours, 1280x1024 desktop and I love the acres of >space. I run so many apps that use plenty of area. >Stay with it Kev, it's STILL worth it. >Best regards >John Angelico >OS/2 SIG >os2 at melbpc dot org dot au or >talldad at kepl dot com dot au >___________________ >PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico >... Windows XP: The parts that work came from OS/2, the rest from >Microsoft > ========================= k.downes at optusnet dot com dot au Windows is not the answer. Windows is the question. The answer is NO! We use and recommend IBM OS/2 Warp and Serenity System's eComStation. ========================= "Jesus Christ is the centre of everything and the object of everything; and he who does not know him, knows nothing of the order of the world and nothing of himself." Blaise Pascal ========================= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 2 ==========================** Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 14:13:33 +1000 (EST) From: "Gavin Miller" Subject: Re: OS/2 CP owners I hear ya Kev, It is nice to be able to install the OS and use. But there is a down side. It's quite hard to find the problem when things DO go wrong or you want the computer to operate in a certain way. It really does pay to spend a bit of time and learn the computer. I'm not an IT professional either, but I do prefer to install what I need myself and know that everything is the way I want it, rather than have the installation program of the OS dictate and install what it finds. I was once asked to teach primary school kids computing, (just for the mere fact that the teachers needed me to fix their computers all the time; they though I was good mmmmm). They could all move the mouse and click on stuff, but couldn't install a game, or know the concept of a directory (folder) structure. I got them playing with DOS and by halfway through the term, these kids could do almost what I could do. I bet that most of the oldschool computer tech's who really know their stuff cut their teeth on DOS or similar where all these drivers and addon's were the user's responsibility to install. When I first installed OS/2 (warp3 at the time) it failed horribly. Then I began to understand the installation's quirks, like NOT installing the video card driver until AFTER the OS was on. Persevere and learn ;-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 3 ==========================** Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 14:39:56 +1100 (AEDT) From: "John Angelico" Subject: Re: OS/2 CP owners On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 14:13:33 +1000 (EST), Gavin Miller wrote: Hi Gavin & Kev >I hear ya Kev, It is nice to be able to install the OS and use. But there is a down side. Mmm, yes, but I see Kev's point too. Maybe we need to convince eCS that an "Upgrade Installation" is the way to go, since we all want to preserve our carefully crafted objects, Desktop setup, location of programs etc. By contrast, the Win setup is a hefty job of throw the old stuff away and create everything afresh. IMNSHO it only works because Win users have been convinced that every new system means learning everything *all over again!* So home users know nothing, learn nothing and never tweak their systems. Experienced users tweak their systems to overcome the deficiencies of the OS but have to throw it all away because the new system supposedly makes it all redundant - only it introduces a whole raft of NEW problems to be tweaked. >It's quite hard to find the problem when things DO go wrong or you want the computer to >operate in a certain way. It really does pay to spend a bit of time and learn the >computer. I'm not an IT professional either, but I do prefer to install what I need myself >and know that everything is the way I want it, rather than have the installation program of >the OS dictate and install what it finds. I was once asked to teach primary school kids >computing, (just for the mere fact that the teachers needed me to fix their computers all >the time; they though I was good mmmmm). They could all move the mouse and click >on stuff, but couldn't install a game, or know the concept of a directory (folder) structure. >I got them playing with DOS and by halfway through the term, these kids could do >almost what I could do. I bet that most of the oldschool computer tech's who really >know their stuff cut their teeth on DOS or similar where all these drivers and addon's >were the user's responsibility to install. > >When I first installed OS/2 (warp3 at the time) it failed horribly. Then I began to >understand the installation's quirks, like NOT installing the video card driver until >AFTER the OS was on. Persevere and learn ;-) By contrast, we OS/2 users and any who, like Gavin and those students, who learned in the days when backwards compatibility meant something, have been trained to expect *continuity* through upgrades. As I said somewhere (maybe in this thread) until this eCS 1.13 install, my last fresh install was over 5 years ago, probably longer only I can't remember that far back...and it happened because the boot drive died. Best regards John Angelico OS/2 SIG os2 at melbpc dot org dot au or talldad at kepl dot com dot au ___________________ PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico .... OS/2: TWICE an operating system, NOT HALF! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 4 ==========================** Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:06:13 +1100 (AEDT) From: "John Angelico" Subject: CD-ROM troubles? Hi everyone. I have my suspicions about my CD-ROM because in the last few days we have had some strange lockups. Symptoms: 1. everything freezes for about one minute - mouse cursor, CPU monitor, the lot 2. everything suddenly works again for about 10 seconds - enough to save a file, say 3. everything freezes solid - no keyboard Ctrl-Alt-Del, no WatchCat or anything (can't even ping from another machine in the local net) 4. have to do a hardware reset and watch for 10 mins of older ChkDsk on CEFGH drives Have noticed though that if I open the CD-ROM drawer, the first lockup is released and the second doesn't happen. So I watched the CD and noticed during the freeze that the access indicator light flashes fast, NOT steadily as it does when being properly used. This we have *noticed* in the last few days because we are flat out trying to get a lot of work done so it's an intense frustration. But it could have been happening before because I have had early morning lockups (type 3. above which I find next morning) during unattended backups. CD is the ONLY IDE device, all HDD are SCSI as is the Fujitsu MO drive used for backup. We have shifted backup to another machine in the network, and it runs smoothly now (too important not to do something about it). I have recently installed eCS 1.13 here, and wonder if anyone has CD hardware or driver problems? Do I need to supply more data on my system? Best regards John Angelico OS/2 SIG os2 at melbpc dot org dot au or talldad at kepl dot com dot au ___________________ PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico .... Emulate: (v.) to simulate hardware glitches with software ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 5 ==========================** Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:09:43 +1100 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: Bigpond Cable Don't forget if you switch, you also get the first two months free !! Yes, it's still working - no problems - your bplogin program still handling everything Telstra Bigpond can throw at it ! Cheers/2 Ed. Paul Smedley wrote: > Ed (Or anyone else on Bigpond Cable), > Is this still working well with OS/2 - eComStation? > > With the recent change in plans to 10gig + shaping I'm tempted to rejoin Bigpond Cable as > with the 10% discount it's only $63/month compared to my $80 now for ADSL for similar > amounts of data. > > Any comments on Bigpond and OS/2 - does bpalogin still do what it needs to do? > > Cheers, > > Paul. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 6 ==========================** Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 19:04:58 +1100 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: CD-ROM troubles? Hi John, I have seen a similar problem, just before a harddisk totally died. I'd suspect HD rather than CD-Rom. Cheers/2 Ed. John Angelico wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I have my suspicions about my CD-ROM because in the last few days we have > had some strange lockups. > > Symptoms: > > 1. everything freezes for about one minute - mouse cursor, CPU monitor, the > lot > 2. everything suddenly works again for about 10 seconds - enough to save a > file, say > 3. everything freezes solid - no keyboard Ctrl-Alt-Del, no WatchCat or > anything > (can't even ping from another machine in the local net) > 4. have to do a hardware reset and watch for 10 mins of older ChkDsk on > CEFGH drives > > Have noticed though that if I open the CD-ROM drawer, the first lockup is > released and the second doesn't happen. > > So I watched the CD and noticed during the freeze that the access indicator > light flashes fast, NOT steadily as it does when being properly used. > > This we have *noticed* in the last few days because we are flat out trying > to get a lot of work done so it's an intense frustration. > But it could have been happening before because I have had early morning > lockups (type 3. above which I find next morning) during unattended > backups. > > CD is the ONLY IDE device, all HDD are SCSI as is the Fujitsu MO drive used > for backup. > > We have shifted backup to another machine in the network, and it runs > smoothly now (too important not to do something about it). > > I have recently installed eCS 1.13 here, and wonder if anyone has CD > hardware or driver problems? > > Do I need to supply more data on my system? > > Best regards > John Angelico > OS/2 SIG > os2 at melbpc dot org dot au or > talldad at kepl dot com dot au > ___________________ > > PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico > ... Emulate: (v.) to simulate hardware glitches with software > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 7 ==========================** Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:58:02 +1100 From: Simon Coulter Subject: Re: OS/2 CP owners On Tuesday, December 9, 2003, at 01:12 PM, k.downes at optusnet dot com dot au wrote: > I'm afraid that what I've read in response to my post has really helped > push me further along that slippery road to perdition ... er, Windoze. > My > problem is that I'm not a computer professional of any description. > I'm > not technically savvy in any way wrt computers, and it seems I have to > be > to use anything other than Windoze. I was going to respond to your first message on this topic but thought better of it. Unless you have a business requirement to use WinDOS you should seriously consider a Mac. That's what I've done. I'm an OS/2 bigot. I think it is still the best desktop and PC server operating system but it was getting too hard to find OS/2 programs that could maintain interoperability with businesses using WinDOS and various Microsloth products. I still use OS/2 for some things and I'm considering eCS for experimentation but MacOS X is now my primary system. While I think the Workplace Shell leaves MacOS X for dead, OS X leaves W2K and XP for dead so I'm still ahead. I am very technical but my area of expertise is OS/400. I know a fair bit about OS/2 but it was always just a tool. I don't want to fight with my desktop OS to make it recognise hardware, nor do I want to force software to run, nor do I want to hunt for applications that might handle the latest file format from WinDOS. I just want it to work. The Mac does that very well and means I can still avoid the road to perdition. While MacOS X is Unix and I can mess with the internals IF I CHOOSE TOO I can just use it as a user which is what I want from a desktop OS. Apple have always done this better than MickeySoft. It has taken Micros~1 10+ years to get close to the reliability of OS/2 and the ease of use inherent in the Mac. Win2K wasn't a bad effort, XP is better but still falls short of the mark. I did buy Microsoft Office v.X for MacOS X because I need interoperability with Word and PowerPoint documents generated on WinDOS. I also installed Virtual PC so I could run WinDOS Internet Explorer which I need for business reasons (much as I hate the idea). I also occasionally run the OS/400 client programs Client Access Express and Operations Navigator in Virtual PC. However most of my time is spent in MacOS X. There are a few things I dislike about MacOS X but nowhere near as many as I dislike about WinDOS and each new version of MacOS X improves things. It is unlikely to ever be as nice as WPS but that's because both environments have different philosophies. (WPS on MacOS X would be something to see!!) From your point of view using MacOS X would mean buying new hardware because the Intel/AMD stuff you currently own won't run MacOS X but you might find you prefer the result. The stuff just works. Drop into an AppleCentre and play for a while (do it on more than one occasion). Drop into a user group meeting and talk to users. All our new desktop system's will be Mac's (we currently have an iBook and a PowerBook) and when I need to replace our OS/2 servers I will seriously consider the Mac rack mounted server and MacOS Server. Regards, Simon Coulter. -------------------------------------------------------------------- FlyByNight Software AS/400 Technical Specialists http://www.flybynight dot com dot au/ Phone: +61 3 9419 0175 Mobile: +61 0411 091 400 /"\ Fax: +61 3 9419 0175 \ / X ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail / \ -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------