From: Digest To: "OS/2GenAu Digest" Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 00:01:21 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600 Subject: [os2genau_digest] No. 1599 Reply-To: X-List-Unsubscribe: www.os2site.com/list/ ************************************************** Saturday 02 February 2008 Number 1599 ************************************************** Subjects for today 1 Re: Intermittent problem : Peter Moylan 2 Re: Intermittent problem : Robert Traynor (BobT)" 3 Re: Intermittent problem : Robert Traynor (BobT)" 4 Re: Intermittent problem : Alan Duval 5 Re: Intermittent problem : Robert Traynor (BobT)" 6 Re: Intermittent problem : Tom Duval 7 Re: Intermittent problem : Robert Traynor (BobT)" 8 Re: Intermittent problem : Ed Durrant 9 Re: Intermittent problem : Paul Smedley 10 Re: Intermittent problem : Ed Durrant 11 Re: Intermittent problem : John Angelico" 12 Re: Intermittent problem : Ian Manners" **= Email 1 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:46:32 +1100 From: Peter Moylan Subject: Re: Intermittent problem On 01/02/08 22:43, Alan Duval wrote: > [attachments have been removed] Remark: there's never any point in sending mail with attachments to a mailing list, because almost all mailing list software has an option to strip off the attachments; and almost all mailing list owners use this option, on the theory that an attachment is usually either a virus, a graphical form of spam, or an HTML copy of the message that some brain-dead mail clients insist on including. There's a good chance that your mail client is misconfigured. I know that Thunderbird is set up to send HTML _by default_, presumably because most of the Mozilla developers these days are Windows refugees: people who have never escaped the mindset that says that e-mail should be in the form that the sender prefers (50 different fonts, blinking text, garish colours, and smilies) rather than the form that most recipients prefer (plain text). Or perhaps it's just because most e-mail is spam, therefore it's important to support the formats that spammers prefer. -- Peter Moylan peter at pmoylan dot org http://www.pmoylan dot org Note: Mail to and from hotmail addresses often doesn't arrive, and hotmail doesn't inform the sender about lost mail. Mail through standards-conforming mail servers is still reliable. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 2 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 06:51:53 +1100 From: "Robert Traynor (BobT)" Subject: Re: Intermittent problem On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:36:25 +1100, Alan Duval wrote: > It's a higher voltage than the one you installed. You mean higher WATTAGE. It cannot be higher VOLTAGE. I am suspicious of your power in your house. You may be experiencing power spikes/surges. Your other email says you don't have a UPS. Regards, Robert Traynor (BobT). 2 February 2008 6:49 ,-._|\ Robert Traynor (BobT) / Oz \ email rtraynor.removeme at removeme.optusnet dot com dot au \_,--.x/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 3 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:11:25 +1100 From: "Robert Traynor (BobT)" Subject: Re: Intermittent problem On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:43:05 +1100, Alan Duval wrote: > I'll have to go back to the local PC shop to get the required details > but won't be able to do so till Monday as I've got a lot to do tomorrow. Just take the side off the computer case and note the details from the sticker on the power supply unit. Robert Traynor (BobT). 2 February 2008 8:11 ,-._|\ Robert Traynor (BobT) / Oz \ email rtraynor.removeme at removeme.optusnet dot com dot au \_,--.x/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 4 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:13:32 +1100 From: Alan Duval Subject: Re: Intermittent problem Hi Peter, I don't know what you are referring to as I have not sent any Email to the os2genau site with attachments. Regards, Alan Peter Moylan wrote: > On 01/02/08 22:43, Alan Duval wrote: > >> [attachments have been removed] > > Remark: there's never any point in sending mail with attachments to a > mailing list, because almost all mailing list software has an option to > strip off the attachments; and almost all mailing list owners use this > option, on the theory that an attachment is usually either a virus, a > graphical form of spam, or an HTML copy of the message that some > brain-dead mail clients insist on including. > > There's a good chance that your mail client is misconfigured. I know > that Thunderbird is set up to send HTML _by default_, presumably because > most of the Mozilla developers these days are Windows refugees: people > who have never escaped the mindset that says that e-mail should be in > the form that the sender prefers (50 different fonts, blinking text, > garish colours, and smilies) rather than the form that most recipients > prefer (plain text). > > Or perhaps it's just because most e-mail is spam, therefore it's > important to support the formats that spammers prefer. > [attachments have been removed] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 5 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:26:06 +1100 From: "Robert Traynor (BobT)" Subject: Re: Intermittent problem Alan, Peter Moylan is referring to your FIRST email on this topic that had the words:- [attachments have been removed] in it at the bottom. This has likely been auto added by whatever email client you are using, and perhaps may be adding a signature graphic or a bit of crap like that added by microsoft email programs. Ian Manners setup on his server, is to NOT allow attachments to this list and is his chosen default. This is definitely getting off topic and you obviously did not intend to send an attachment, so I suggest this be forgotten about and get back to the problem at hand. Regards, Robert Traynor (BobT). 2 February 2008 15:25 On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:13:32 +1100, Alan Duval wrote: > Hi Peter, > > I don't know what you are referring to as I have not sent any Email to > the os2genau site with attachments. > > Regards, > > Alan > > Peter Moylan wrote: > > On 01/02/08 22:43, Alan Duval wrote: > > > >> [attachments have been removed] > > ,-._|\ Robert Traynor (BobT) / Oz \ email rtraynor.removeme at removeme.optusnet dot com dot au \_,--.x/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 6 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 18:03:35 +0000 From: Tom Duval Subject: Re: Intermittent problem Robert Traynor (BobT) wrote: >On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:36:25 +1100, Alan Duval wrote: > > >>It's a higher voltage than the one you installed. >> >> > >You mean higher WATTAGE. >It cannot be higher VOLTAGE. > > Oops, forgive my boo boo. The power supply is a BESTA PT-550. Total output is 550 W A/C input 115/250 V 50/60 Hz 6A/4A DC output (Max) +33V 29A +5V 43A +12V 18A -12V 0.8A +5Vsd 2.5A Looks like it's made in Germany and is marked as supporting AMD and Intel. >I am suspicious of your power in your house. You may be experiencing >power spikes/surges. Your other email says you don't have a UPS. > > By UPS I take it to mean one of those units that maintain a constant voltage and which have a battery in case of a blackout. I do have a surge protector. I have taken the new HD out of the removable cradle and connected directly. At present I am using my new eCs installation so will see whether the problem recurs. The local PC repair man says people get a lot of problems in the Peninsula area due to fluctuations in the electricity supply. Regards, Alan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 7 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:09:20 +1100 From: "Robert Traynor (BobT)" Subject: Re: Intermittent problem Hi Alan, answers below.... On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 18:03:35 +0000, Tom Duval wrote: > By UPS I take it to mean one of those units that maintain a constant > voltage and which have a battery in case of a blackout. I do have a > surge protector. Yes, that is what a UPS is. Good that you have a surge protector and not a device with "overload protection" ie a circuit breaker. A true surge protector is better for VOLTAGE overload spikes or surges whereas a device with "overload protection" will only give CURRENT overload protection and not voltage overload protection. Surge protectors should be replaced at regular intervals depending on the type. More expensive ones indicate when they have failed, the cheap ones only give an indication by melting when/if they have done their job and burnt out sacrificially. Otherwise they give NO indication that their efficiency may have dropped below par. Consequently, the cheap ones should be replaced every so often. Some have said every 6 years. I don't know myself what the correct time is likely to be. More expensive units like the Belkin range have indicator LEDs and an insurance policy from $5,000 and up depending on the model and price. A UPS is BOTH a battery backup that can produce a controlled AC 240volt supply in the event of either a lack of AC power or (on better ones) a low or OVER voltage AC supply. It will also act as a far more efficient surge protector as well. > I have taken the new HD out of the removable cradle and connected > directly. At present I am using my new eCs installation so will see > whether the problem recurs. Good starting point. Always simplify a system when problem solving.! > The local PC repair man says people get a lot of problems in the > Peninsula area due to fluctuations in the electricity supply. Bingo.! UPS needed. Urgently.! Damn, where are my UPS Company shares...! :-) :-) :-) HTH, Regards, Robert Traynor (BobT). 2 February 2008 18:59 ,-._|\ Robert Traynor (BobT) / Oz \ email rtraynor.removeme at removeme.optusnet dot com dot au \_,--.x/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 8 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:40:53 +1100 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: Intermittent problem Robert Traynor (BobT) wrote: >> The local PC repair man says people get a lot of problems in the >> Peninsula area due to fluctuations in the electricity supply. >> > > Bingo.! UPS needed. Urgently.! > > > Damn, where are my UPS Company shares...! :-) :-) :-) > > HTH, > Regards, > Robert Traynor (BobT). > 2 February 2008 18:59 > I just replaced my cheap $150 (4 years ago) UPS with a $79 one from eBay - I then bought another for my wife's system. They've kicked in perfectly three times in the last two months when the power has gone out on the Penninsula (Central Coast NSW). These are Chinese built "CABAC" 650DV2 units and power without issue my AMD X2 system, laptop, LCD monitor (and CRT before it), VOIP ATA, WiFi access point, network switch, ADSL 2+ modem and probably a couple of other devices I have forgotten. The rule is however, NEVER connect a printer to the UPS, (especially a laser printer), the surge they pull when starting up can cause the UPS permanent damage. Unfortunately monitoring on them is USB, so no OS/2 compatible software that I have found - but really since they keep the systems running for up to 30 minutes, it's plenty of time to save what you are working on and manually shutdown the systems. Cheers/2 Ed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 9 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:51:44 +1030 From: Paul Smedley Subject: Re: Intermittent problem Hi Ed, Ed Durrant wrote: > I just replaced my cheap $150 (4 years ago) UPS with a $79 one from eBay > - I then bought another for my wife's system. They've kicked in > perfectly three times in the last two months when the power has gone out > on the Penninsula (Central Coast NSW). These are Chinese built "CABAC" > 650DV2 units and power without issue my AMD X2 system, laptop, LCD > monitor (and CRT before it), VOIP ATA, WiFi access point, network > switch, ADSL 2+ modem and probably a couple of other devices I have > forgotten. The rule is however, NEVER connect a printer to the UPS, > (especially a laser printer), the surge they pull when starting up can > cause the UPS permanent damage. Got any more details on these - the only ones I could see on ebay were $129.... Cheers, Paul. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 10 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 21:48:45 +1100 From: Ed Durrant Subject: Re: Intermittent problem Paul Smedley wrote: > Hi Ed, > > Ed Durrant wrote: >> I just replaced my cheap $150 (4 years ago) UPS with a $79 one from >> eBay - I then bought another for my wife's system. They've kicked in >> perfectly three times in the last two months when the power has gone >> out on the Penninsula (Central Coast NSW). These are Chinese built >> "CABAC" 650DV2 units and power without issue my AMD X2 system, >> laptop, LCD monitor (and CRT before it), VOIP ATA, WiFi access point, >> network switch, ADSL 2+ modem and probably a couple of other devices >> I have forgotten. The rule is however, NEVER connect a printer to the >> UPS, (especially a laser printer), the surge they pull when starting >> up can cause the UPS permanent damage. > > Got any more details on these - the only ones I could see on ebay were > $129.... > > Cheers, > > Paul. > > > Looks like they've gone up to $95 now: http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/CABAC-650VA-UPS-LCD-DISPLAY-15MIN-BACKUP-12MTS-WTY-95_W0QQitemZ190194164401QQihZ009QQcategoryZ111430QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Cheers/2 Ed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 11 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 22:19:16 +1000 (AEST) From: "John Angelico" Subject: Re: Intermittent problem On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:51:44 +1030, Paul Smedley wrote: >Hi Ed, > >Ed Durrant wrote: >> I just replaced my cheap $150 (4 years ago) UPS with a $79 one from eBay >> - I then bought another for my wife's system. They've kicked in >> perfectly three times in the last two months when the power has gone out >> on the Penninsula (Central Coast NSW). These are Chinese built "CABAC" >> 650DV2 units and power without issue my AMD X2 system, laptop, LCD >> monitor (and CRT before it), VOIP ATA, WiFi access point, network >> switch, ADSL 2+ modem and probably a couple of other devices I have >> forgotten. The rule is however, NEVER connect a printer to the UPS, >> (especially a laser printer), the surge they pull when starting up can >> cause the UPS permanent damage. > >Got any more details on these - the only ones I could see on ebay were >$129.... > >Cheers, > >Paul. Uh, Ed. You might like to check their capabilities after three successful uses. UPSs have a limited capacity to work - absorb spikes, supply power as designed - as their electronics eventually tire out. At work we had one heavy duty UPS for the server which conked out after coping with 3 storms. The server went down during our fourth storm (before Christmas). It had been in service for some years, but be warned, they do eventually fail to do their job. It's better to learn that *before* you need to rely on them. :-) Best regards John Angelico OS/2 SIG os2 at melbpc dot org dot au or talldad at kepl dot com dot au ___________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 12 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 23:37:40 +1100 (EDT) From: "Ian Manners" Subject: Re: Intermittent problem Bit of info for you all, as I've had a lot to do with batteries in the mining and electronics industry. Sealed gel batteries are not designed to be deep cycled, so everytime they are used for more than just shutting down a PC they will suffer damage to the plates. Damage is also slowly caused to the plates by the continues trickle charging. Rule of thumb for UPS's, replace the batteries EVERY 2 years. Home use I would recommend 2-3 years. The cheaper UPS's will also suffer heat damage to the components around the switching transisters. I use 2 x 1800VA UPS's here, both have fans, both have been opened by myself for inspection and checking the solder joints /air flow and I like to replace tab heat sinks with something a bit bigger. I also have what we call "Loco" batteries, these are better designed for deep discharge as I expect my servers to remain up :-). Unless you know what you are doing however I would NOT recommend you open your own UPS up, there are LETHAL voltages floating around the circuit board, and with some UPS's even when disconnected from the wall, they still have batterys inside that can start the UPS up ! I might also add that some companies take liberties with the ratings. Cheers Ian Manners http://www.os2site dot com/ Themosthorrendouslydifficultproblemwithtaglinesisfindingenoughspace!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------